On today’s show, John talks to the novelist Elle Nash about her breathtaking new novel, Deliver Me. The chief topic is how to write a strange, nearly impossible story about American poverty without wallowing or romanticizing one’s characters and finding beauty in their ability to strive to understand a maddening world.

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Episode 604 of The Drunken Odyssey, your favorite podcast about creative writing and literature, is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or click here to stream (right click to download, if that’s your thing).