On today’s show, John talks about poetry and bookselling and MFA programs and AWP conferences with Alex Gurtis, whose latest chapbook, When the Ocean Comes to Me, is now out with Bottlecap Press.

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Episode 640 of The Drunken Odyssey, your favorite podcast about creative writing and literature, is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or click here to stream (right click to download, if that’s your thing).